[[snapshot]]: 2021-05-19 19:05:49

Affected files:

.obsidian/workspace
"distributed press 2019.md"
"distributed press 2021-05-19.md"
"distributed press.md"

.obsidian/workspace

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@@ -49,6 +49,30 @@
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@@ -273,7 +297,7 @@
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@@ -323,17 +347,17 @@
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     "secure scuttlebutt.md",
     "i annotate 2021.md",
     "atjson.md",
-    "trailmarks.md",
+    "trailmarks.md"
-    "2021-05-19.md",
-    "midnight run.md"
   ]
 }

distributed press.md

@@ -1,179 +1,4 @@
 - a [[set]] of [[talks]]
 	- [[go]] https://github.com/hyphacoop/distributed-press-organizing/issues/39
 	- organized by [[hypha]]
-- [[push]] [[distributed press 2019]]
+	- [[pull]] [[distributed press 2021-05-19]]
-- [[benedict lau]]
-	- [[hypha]]
-		- interested in building a tool that publishes through many different protocols
-			- sharing social messages seamlessly
-		- [[flancian]]
-		- [[paul frazee]]
-			- [[secure scuttlebut]]
-			- [[beaker browser]]
-			- [[hypercore protocol]]
-				- [[ctzn]]
-		- [[guo]]
-			- matters.news
-			- serving mostly chinese communities
-			- looking at [[ipfs]], [[hypercore]]
-			- working on a protocol similar to [[unwalled garden]], but also thinking of integrating [[rss]]
-				- also interested on [[webmentions]]
-		- [[vera]]
-			- working on [[agora]]
-			- background in distributed social systems, worked on (sp?) status, before mastodon
-		- [[fauno]]
-			- (mic incoming) :)
-- [[paul frazee]] 
-	- [[distributed vs federated]]
-		- a bit stuck here currently
-		- the way to conceptualize
-		- [[federated]] ~ [[mastodon]]
-		- [[distributed]] ~ [[ipfs]] mesh
-			- completely open system, if you're in the mesh you're in
-			- technologically, user experience wise is great
-			- trying to figure out how to deal with the [[cost]] structure
-			- in the case of social media, you're making your own twitter
-			- how do you get economies of scale worked in there?
-				- [[filecoin]]?
-				- [[gateway model]]
-					- ipfs gateway: there is more than one of them
-				- if your mesh contains social data, you get a social network
-			- [[ben]] what are the costs involved?
-				- [[paul]] unsure but they all seem associated to a side business so far
-			- advantages
-				- ?
-				- serverless clients are possible
-			- [[ben]]
-				- less well maintained gateways become issues for user experience
-				- censorship
-				- [[guo]] yes, gateways become a centralized point
-					- gateway should be a backup after serverless client
-				- [[paul frazee]]
-					- spent 6-8 months working on a social network back in [[beaker]]
-					- some stuff that stops you:
-						- links that are a new protocol are an issue
-						- ux killer on stuff like twitter
-					- didn't have a push messaging system back then
-						- didn't want to have to deal with spam
-						- ux killer: no notifications unless mutual follow
-							- [[aggregator]]
-					- try to bring in positive properties of the system
-				- [[flancian]]
-					- [[metcalfe's law]]
-				- [[ben]]
-					- [[web mentions]]
-- [[guo]]
-	- content feed + social graph as a distributed publication and social network
-	- people can store their content feed and social graph anywhere
-	- user control their data
-	- search
-	- separating storage and aggregation
-- [[paul frazee]]
-	- database vs datamesh
-	- federation puts application logic in the wire protocol
-- [[flancian]]
-	- [[datamesh]] should probably be treated as a commons
-- [[guo]]
-	- we could avoid many governance issues at the [[database]] layer
-	- [[ben]] this sounds like the [[scuttlebutt]] and [[hypercore model]]?
-		- [[paul]] when last involved there was no global entrypoint, it was [[gossip protocol]]
-		- [[pubs]] were [[store and forward relays]]
-		- information would flow 100% on the basis of the social graph
-		- led to complexities; people could give you keys and still be unreachable
-- [[flancian]]
-	- [[paul]]
-		- how do you end up in a situation in which governance is required? 
-	- [[guo]]
-		- datamesh seems like it does not require governance, but the aggregator does
-		- (interlay vs overlay?)
- 		- [[ben]] aether (sp?) 
-			- distributed reddit
-			- distributed moderation
-			- liquid democracy-like
-		- [[ben]]
-			- we need to agree on:
-				- schemas
-				- distribution protocol
-				- aggregator censorship
-			- what happens when your computer ends up hosting hate speech?
-				- you can stop the flow in the mesh and that applies negative evolutionary pressure
-			- [[paul]] aether does [[default allow]], I do [[default deny]]
-		- [[flancian]]
-			- minimum exchange format
-		- [[guo]]
-			- choice of markdown vs html
-			- chose html over markdown, it supports arbitrary media
-			- [[encryption]]
-				- exclusive content
-				- hard to define protocol-level encryption standard
-				- bake the encryption message into the html
-					- [[mdx]]
-		- [[ben]] decided to first publish/store things as html
-			- most people want to have something ready-to-publish
-			- but a consumption pattern arises: you copy/paste whole articles
-			- on the dweb there is an opportunity for this as we can publish different formats of the same concept
-			- get content in more than one format
-		- [[paul]]
-			- [[schemas]] in general
-			- I would describe what you were discussing as "rich text format"
-			- orthogonal to schemas
-				- fighting with schemas since [[secure scuttlebutt]]
-				- pissed off [[rdf]] people
-		    	- reached https://ctzn.network/comment
-				- scuttlebutt: did not impose *any* schema obligations; disastrous approach
-				- [[unwalled gardens]]: enforced types
-				- [[ctzn network]]: urls identifying the schemas with a machine readable format
-					- rejects messages that don't comply with the schema
-					- believe in this approach
-						- if you don't, you end up in the tragedy of the commons or failure in collective action (scuttlebutt)
-							- compatibility with the schema dictates everything you can do
-							- you have a feature, you add a dependency
-							- had a post type
-								- would be nice if you have a topic
-								- if you are not subscribed to [[cats]], you won't see it
-								- but you can't rely on it as many clients won't support it
-								- you might end up spamming old clients
-								- [[fatal ambiguity]]
-								- once you see this, schemas start seeming risky to change
-								- you can do extension points, but would suggest against
-							- current approach:
-								- well defined schemas
-								- people can determine their own schemas
-								- control the [[ctzn network]] schemas
-								- can have extension tables
-							- [[ben]]
-								- feel like [[scuttlebutt]] has a schema, otherwise you couldn't have more than one client
-								- what it lacked, it seems, is versioning?
-								- how do you manage upgrades?
-							 - [[paul]] the problem is multiple clients controlled by different devs
-							 - [[flancian]] what do you really need for features -- usually you'd want to have the minimum minimum schema requirements?
-							 - [[paul frazee]]
-							 	- [[web mentions]]: exploring now
-								- [[unwalled garden]]
-									- difference between it and [[ctzn network]]
-								- suppose you want to have the ability to have mentions in your comments
-									- you have to keep parsing for entities if you store text or text-like
-									- using [[hyperbee]] in [[ctzn]]
-										- it can list directories or keyspaces in order
-									    - more like a database technology
-								- for distributed press/unwalled garden: file oriented approach can work over http
-						- [[guo]] in the comments problem, who owns the post data?
-							- the post it's on could 'own' it
-							- the [[comment]] writer could own it
-								- this seems safer?
-						- [[fauno]]
-							- if we allow for comments, who is responsible for keeping them? hateful comments/censorship/etc
-							- [[webmentions]]: fascist websites pinging you
-							- people don't have time to moderate
-						- [[ben]] same thing is seen in wordpress
-						- [[fauno]] web mentions and how to keep bad parties out
-						- [[flancian]] how will moderation work in [[ctzn network]]? 
-							- [[paul]] would like to have a great answer :)
-								- [[reputation systems]]
-									- no one size fits all
-									- this lets you scale the work
-									- reputational graph approach
-								- [[subjective moderation]]
-									- elected moderators
-		
-