From a9a3c7fb002f6918448a20eb5ddb3fd1e9af5cfc Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Flancian <0@flancia.org> Date: Wed, 19 May 2021 19:05:49 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] [[snapshot]]: 2021-05-19 19:05:49 Affected files: .obsidian/workspace "distributed press 2019.md" "distributed press 2021-05-19.md" "distributed press.md" --- .obsidian/workspace | 38 +++++-- distributed press 2019.md | 0 distributed press 2021-05-19.md | 0 distributed press.md | 177 +------------------------------- 4 files changed, 32 insertions(+), 183 deletions(-) create mode 100644 distributed press 2019.md create mode 100644 distributed press 2021-05-19.md diff --git a/.obsidian/workspace b/.obsidian/workspace index 15ddfaaa5..ad424ae76 100644 --- a/.obsidian/workspace +++ b/.obsidian/workspace @@ -40,7 +40,7 @@ { "id": "8a56ec28d423896d", "type": "leaf", - "dimension": 15.769770706598035, + "dimension": 7.88488535329902, "state": { "type": "markdown", "state": { @@ -49,6 +49,30 @@ } } }, + { + "id": "c071acc4ccfb8dc9", + "type": "leaf", + "dimension": 3.94244267664951, + "state": { + "type": "markdown", + "state": { + "file": "distributed press.md", + "mode": "source" + } + } + }, + { + "id": "4ea066c727e01a43", + "type": "leaf", + "dimension": 3.94244267664951, + "state": { + "type": "markdown", + "state": { + "file": "distributed press 2021-05-19.md", + "mode": "source" + } + } + }, { "id": "275939b25bb9e25b", "type": "leaf", @@ -273,7 +297,7 @@ "state": { "type": "backlink", "state": { - "file": "distributed press.md", + "file": "distributed press 2021-05-19.md", "collapseAll": false, "extraContext": false, "sortOrder": "alphabetical", @@ -290,7 +314,7 @@ "state": { "type": "outline", "state": { - "file": "distributed press.md" + "file": "distributed press 2021-05-19.md" } } }, @@ -323,17 +347,17 @@ "width": 300, "collapsed": true }, - "active": "8a56ec28d423896d", + "active": "4ea066c727e01a43", "lastOpenFiles": [ + "distributed press 2021-05-19.md", "distributed press.md", + "distributed press 2019.md", "fauno.md", "do.md", "ctzn network.md", "secure scuttlebutt.md", "i annotate 2021.md", "atjson.md", - "trailmarks.md", - "2021-05-19.md", - "midnight run.md" + "trailmarks.md" ] } \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/distributed press 2019.md b/distributed press 2019.md new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e69de29bb diff --git a/distributed press 2021-05-19.md b/distributed press 2021-05-19.md new file mode 100644 index 000000000..e69de29bb diff --git a/distributed press.md b/distributed press.md index eb4cc6e4d..ff60f4ca9 100644 --- a/distributed press.md +++ b/distributed press.md @@ -1,179 +1,4 @@ - a [[set]] of [[talks]] - [[go]] https://github.com/hyphacoop/distributed-press-organizing/issues/39 - organized by [[hypha]] -- [[push]] [[distributed press 2019]] -- [[benedict lau]] - - [[hypha]] - - interested in building a tool that publishes through many different protocols - - sharing social messages seamlessly - - [[flancian]] - - [[paul frazee]] - - [[secure scuttlebut]] - - [[beaker browser]] - - [[hypercore protocol]] - - [[ctzn]] - - [[guo]] - - matters.news - - serving mostly chinese communities - - looking at [[ipfs]], [[hypercore]] - - working on a protocol similar to [[unwalled garden]], but also thinking of integrating [[rss]] - - also interested on [[webmentions]] - - [[vera]] - - working on [[agora]] - - background in distributed social systems, worked on (sp?) status, before mastodon - - [[fauno]] - - (mic incoming) :) -- [[paul frazee]] - - [[distributed vs federated]] - - a bit stuck here currently - - the way to conceptualize - - [[federated]] ~ [[mastodon]] - - [[distributed]] ~ [[ipfs]] mesh - - completely open system, if you're in the mesh you're in - - technologically, user experience wise is great - - trying to figure out how to deal with the [[cost]] structure - - in the case of social media, you're making your own twitter - - how do you get economies of scale worked in there? - - [[filecoin]]? - - [[gateway model]] - - ipfs gateway: there is more than one of them - - if your mesh contains social data, you get a social network - - [[ben]] what are the costs involved? - - [[paul]] unsure but they all seem associated to a side business so far - - advantages - - ? - - serverless clients are possible - - [[ben]] - - less well maintained gateways become issues for user experience - - censorship - - [[guo]] yes, gateways become a centralized point - - gateway should be a backup after serverless client - - [[paul frazee]] - - spent 6-8 months working on a social network back in [[beaker]] - - some stuff that stops you: - - links that are a new protocol are an issue - - ux killer on stuff like twitter - - didn't have a push messaging system back then - - didn't want to have to deal with spam - - ux killer: no notifications unless mutual follow - - [[aggregator]] - - try to bring in positive properties of the system - - [[flancian]] - - [[metcalfe's law]] - - [[ben]] - - [[web mentions]] -- [[guo]] - - content feed + social graph as a distributed publication and social network - - people can store their content feed and social graph anywhere - - user control their data - - search - - separating storage and aggregation -- [[paul frazee]] - - database vs datamesh - - federation puts application logic in the wire protocol -- [[flancian]] - - [[datamesh]] should probably be treated as a commons -- [[guo]] - - we could avoid many governance issues at the [[database]] layer - - [[ben]] this sounds like the [[scuttlebutt]] and [[hypercore model]]? - - [[paul]] when last involved there was no global entrypoint, it was [[gossip protocol]] - - [[pubs]] were [[store and forward relays]] - - information would flow 100% on the basis of the social graph - - led to complexities; people could give you keys and still be unreachable -- [[flancian]] - - [[paul]] - - how do you end up in a situation in which governance is required? - - [[guo]] - - datamesh seems like it does not require governance, but the aggregator does - - (interlay vs overlay?) - - [[ben]] aether (sp?) - - distributed reddit - - distributed moderation - - liquid democracy-like - - [[ben]] - - we need to agree on: - - schemas - - distribution protocol - - aggregator censorship - - what happens when your computer ends up hosting hate speech? - - you can stop the flow in the mesh and that applies negative evolutionary pressure - - [[paul]] aether does [[default allow]], I do [[default deny]] - - [[flancian]] - - minimum exchange format - - [[guo]] - - choice of markdown vs html - - chose html over markdown, it supports arbitrary media - - [[encryption]] - - exclusive content - - hard to define protocol-level encryption standard - - bake the encryption message into the html - - [[mdx]] - - [[ben]] decided to first publish/store things as html - - most people want to have something ready-to-publish - - but a consumption pattern arises: you copy/paste whole articles - - on the dweb there is an opportunity for this as we can publish different formats of the same concept - - get content in more than one format - - [[paul]] - - [[schemas]] in general - - I would describe what you were discussing as "rich text format" - - orthogonal to schemas - - fighting with schemas since [[secure scuttlebutt]] - - pissed off [[rdf]] people - - reached https://ctzn.network/comment - - scuttlebutt: did not impose *any* schema obligations; disastrous approach - - [[unwalled gardens]]: enforced types - - [[ctzn network]]: urls identifying the schemas with a machine readable format - - rejects messages that don't comply with the schema - - believe in this approach - - if you don't, you end up in the tragedy of the commons or failure in collective action (scuttlebutt) - - compatibility with the schema dictates everything you can do - - you have a feature, you add a dependency - - had a post type - - would be nice if you have a topic - - if you are not subscribed to [[cats]], you won't see it - - but you can't rely on it as many clients won't support it - - you might end up spamming old clients - - [[fatal ambiguity]] - - once you see this, schemas start seeming risky to change - - you can do extension points, but would suggest against - - current approach: - - well defined schemas - - people can determine their own schemas - - control the [[ctzn network]] schemas - - can have extension tables - - [[ben]] - - feel like [[scuttlebutt]] has a schema, otherwise you couldn't have more than one client - - what it lacked, it seems, is versioning? - - how do you manage upgrades? - - [[paul]] the problem is multiple clients controlled by different devs - - [[flancian]] what do you really need for features -- usually you'd want to have the minimum minimum schema requirements? - - [[paul frazee]] - - [[web mentions]]: exploring now - - [[unwalled garden]] - - difference between it and [[ctzn network]] - - suppose you want to have the ability to have mentions in your comments - - you have to keep parsing for entities if you store text or text-like - - using [[hyperbee]] in [[ctzn]] - - it can list directories or keyspaces in order - - more like a database technology - - for distributed press/unwalled garden: file oriented approach can work over http - - [[guo]] in the comments problem, who owns the post data? - - the post it's on could 'own' it - - the [[comment]] writer could own it - - this seems safer? - - [[fauno]] - - if we allow for comments, who is responsible for keeping them? hateful comments/censorship/etc - - [[webmentions]]: fascist websites pinging you - - people don't have time to moderate - - [[ben]] same thing is seen in wordpress - - [[fauno]] web mentions and how to keep bad parties out - - [[flancian]] how will moderation work in [[ctzn network]]? - - [[paul]] would like to have a great answer :) - - [[reputation systems]] - - no one size fits all - - this lets you scale the work - - reputational graph approach - - [[subjective moderation]] - - elected moderators - - \ No newline at end of file + - [[pull]] [[distributed press 2021-05-19]]