# Armengol Lorand
- [[daniel-armengol-altayo]] and [[jonathan-the-utopian]]

## [[2021-02-14]]
- [[christopher alexander]]
  - [[reading alexander]]
    - [[ttwob]] is [[ideological]] / [[philosophical]]
    - [[apl]] is an [[implementation]]
  - [[armengol]]
    - first watched youtube video in [[palo alto]] about [[pattern languages]] in [[computing]]
    - [[fifteen principles]] (wikipedia)
      - shifting [[scales]] should be made without discontinuities/jumps.
        - [[twitter]]: small scale. a [[book]]: large scale. 
        - how to translate ideas from [[book]] to [[tweet]]?
- how did we meet?
  - [[jonathan]] and [[me]]: [[visakanv]] list of friends per city
  - [[daniel]] and [[me]]: in [[foam]]'s [[discord]]
  - "we met through the internet"
    - is this a [[common experience]]?
      - [[me]] common around the 2000s
        - [[irc]]
        - [[icq]] "happy that chatting"
        - [[livejournal]]
      - [[jonathan-the-utopian]]
        - not really
      - [[daniel-armengol-altayo]]  
- [[mathspace]] vs [[cyberspace]]
  - [[jonathan-the-utopian]] as of late, yes; would love to *make* something
    - interactions with technology are often frustrating though
    - [[daniel]] Q: which kinds of things would you like to build?
    - [[jonathan-the-utopian]] A: liked your sites btw :)
      - [[vewpoint]]
      - one minimal tool would like to have: take notes as a group
        - inclusivity: people shouldn't need to know [[git]] to onramp
        - [[daniel]] +1, we need people from outside the computer field
        - [[branch]] [[ampl]]
        - [[branch]] [[indieweb]] [[micropub]]
        - [[branch]] [[fedstoa]]
        - [[daniel]] how to connect both worlds?
        - "a system that allows itself to..."
    - *[[open question]]*
- definition of [[protopia]]
  - requires [[ethics]]      
- [[core questions]] in [[mtr master konzept]]
  - [[jonathan-the-utopian]] this seems to be leading into vulnerability/psychological explorations
  - [[daniel]] is the key intent here to answer these questions for a small group or to develop a framework for other people?
    - both, but first the earlier :)
  - [[branch]] [[rational tarot]]
  - [[branch]] [[language games]]
  - [[branch]] [[wittgenstein]]
  - [[branch]] [[lyotard]]
  - [[branch]] update the [[proust questionnaire]]?
- [[jonathan-the-utopian]]: what is your background?
  - [[daniel-armengol-altayo]] 
    - [[computers]] + [[design]] -> [[multimedia engineering]]
    - [[branch]] [[merveilles]] looks like a good fit
    - [[multitouch tablet]] experiment led to [[5 years]] doing [[interactive installations]]
    - became more interested in how people behaved than in the actual content of the screens/the technology 
    - moved to [[art]], stopped doing commercial work, [[moved to the woods]]
      - "i want to inspire others in the same way these people are inspiring me"
    - conversations with [[xavivives]], who is more technical, led to a [[bootcamp]]
    - [[branch]] [[feedback club]]
- [[daniel-armengol-altayo]] back at ya
  - [[jonathan-the-utopian]] grew up in [[california]]
    - [[swiss]] and [[us]] citizen, moved to [[switzerland]] at [[18]]
    - decided to study [[physics]], then felt the need to understand [[mathematics]] first.
    - bachelors + masters in math
    - burned out after that, atmosphere at university wasn't great
    - took [[1 year]] off
    - interested in [[social processes]]
      - [[branch]] [[santa fe institute]]
    - finally started a [[phd]] until [[february 2020]]
    - was in [[buenos aires]], dance [[tango]]
    - decided not to do a [[postdoc]], wanted to leave [[academia]]
    - applied to a program in [[zhdk]]: [[transdisciplinary studies]]
      - supposed to be connected to [[mathematical background]]
    - [[dream]] [[art space]] / [[event space]]
      - [[branch]] [[wormhole]]
      - [[branch]] [[simcity]]
- [[daniel-armengol-altayo]] curious that what society understand by [[artist]] is: a person that is free to do whatever they want. [[art]] is perceived as a [[playground]].
  - personally don't want to use [[art]] as a [[goal]], but rather as a [[medium]] or [[means]] or [[channel]].
  - [[experiments]] as [[play]]
  - [[branch]] [[carnival]]
  - I like working with [[concepts]]
  - [[art]] as a [[lens]]
  - can a [[business]] be a piece of [[art]]?
    - there's non-zero overlap
  - [[branch]] [[dao]]
  - [[push]] [[artistic entrepeneurship]] 
    - == [[art business]] 
    - [[danielle baskin]]
- [[infrastructure]] we need
  - [[basic tools]] to share information in a better way
  - something close to a [[wiki]]
  - [[branch]] [[stoa]]
  - let's write [[user journeys]] and compare?
  - [[q]] what are our frustrations?
    - [[a]] [[jonathan-the-utopian]] would wish to have a place like discord/zulip, two level or arbitrary level tool
    - [[a]] [[digital space]] where we can write structured information
    - [[branch]] [[agora]] as a tool to get a [[communication instance]] with a given well defined [[context]]
      - [[armengolaltayo]] we need a [[representation]] of each [[entity]] in the context; an [[encoding]] or [[recording]]
- [[possible projects]]
  - [[physical]] [[spaces]] connected through the internet
  - [[interactive fiction]]
    - [[conversation trees]]
- [[daniel-armengol-altayo]] main focus is understanding how information processing happens
  - say someone sends a [[link]], like the danielle baskin website
  - depending on the format, it is more or less useful
  - [[context]] is very important
  - [[context]] for a conversation is the [[intersect]] between [[world models]] after [[transformations]]
  - you can use [[tools]] to [[augment]] certain capacities
- [[spaces]]
  - [[armengolaltayo]] [[zettelkasten]]
    - each [[note]] has [[one idea]]
- [[goals]]
  - [[decisions]]
    - [[root node]]
      - it is in [[protopoi]]
    - [[chat room]]
  - a [[place to write notes]]


[//begin]: # "Autogenerated link references for markdown compatibility"
[daniel-armengol-altayo]: daniel-armengol-altayo "Daniel Armengol Altayo"
[jonathan-the-utopian]: jonathan-the-utopian "Jonathan the Utopian"
[2021-02-14]: journal/2021-02-14 "2021-02-14"
[christopher alexander]: christopher-alexander "Christopher Alexander"
[reading alexander]: reading-alexander "Reading Alexander"
[armengol]: armengol "Armengol"
[twitter]: twitter "Twitter"
[book]: book "Book"
[tweet]: tweet "Tweet"
[jonathan]: jonathan "Jonathan"
[me]: me "Me"
[visakanv]: visakanv "Visakanv"
[foam]: foam "Foam"
[discord]: discord "Discord"
[irc]: irc "Irc"
[cyberspace]: cyberspace "Cyberspace"
[vewpoint]: vewpoint "Vewpoint"
[ampl]: ampl "Ampl"
[indieweb]: indieweb "Indieweb"
[micropub]: micropub "Micropub"
[fedstoa]: fedstoa "Fedstoa"
[protopia]: protopia "Protopia"
[ethics]: ethics "Ethics"
[language games]: language-games "Language Games"
[wittgenstein]: wittgenstein "Wittgenstein"
[computers]: computers "Computers"
[merveilles]: merveilles "Merveilles"
[xavivives]: xavivives "Xavivives"
[santa fe institute]: santa-fe-institute "Santa Fe Institute"
[zhdk]: zhdk "Zhdk"
[carnival]: carnival "Carnival"
[push]: push "Push"
[danielle baskin]: danielle-baskin "Danielle Baskin"
[wiki]: wiki "Wiki"
[stoa]: stoa "Stoa"
[q]: q "Q"
[a]: a "A"
[agora]: agora "Agora"
[context]: context "Context"
[armengolaltayo]: armengolaltayo "Armengolaltayo"
[entity]: entity "Entity"
[link]: link "Link"
[tools]: tools "Tools"
[zettelkasten]: zettelkasten "Zettelkasten"
[note]: note "Note"
[goals]: goals "Goals"
[//end]: # "Autogenerated link references"